Mike and Rachel talk about Chappel Roan’s album The Rise and Fall of a Midwest Princess and participating in arts and culture that aren’t for you.

Mike and Rachel talk about Rachel’s novel-in-progress.

Mike and Rachel talk about Star Trek, which turns into a discussion of optimism vs. hope, cozy media, and the cultural role of motherhood. And some other stuff, too.

Rachel gets meta meta meta. Mike still isn’t sure what we’re doing here but goes with it.

Mike introduces Rachel to TikTok in order to talk about how we talk about young people.

Mike asks Rachel: “What are we going to talk about? And are we really doing this?”