Transcript - Episode 8: Breaking Format
Hey, It’s Me
EPISODE # 8
Hosts: Mike Sakasegawa and Rachel Zucker
Transcript by: Leigh Sugar
Transcripts formatted after those from Disability Visibility Project
Please note: transcripts are transcribed directly from recordings of live conversations; as a result, quotes and statements may be approximate and there may be unintended memory errors.
MIKE SAKASEGAWA: Hey, Rachel, you know, part of me kind of wants to take that message that you just sent, and use it as our next Hey, It's Me, as episode eight of Hey, It's Me. I think that, you know, there are pieces of context that are missing, perhaps, but I think that it does a lot, that message, to communicate something about where you are and what your experience is like, and also something about our friendship, I think.
And it would be different from the format that we're used to, but, I think that if anything is clear, it's that formats are changing right now. And insofar as it would be perhaps interesting to an audience or useful for us to let people know what's going on, I think that maybe that message would work as an episode by itself. And maybe this one too [laughs]. Maybe this one on the end as well.
[Music]
RACHEL ZUCKER: Hey, it's me. I got your message, and I loved it so much. I feel like… I feel like I've been sucked into this like black vortex hellscape. Like this alternate universe of terribleness… and I feel like that message from you, I just, I love hearing about your experience and I feel like I'm entering this part of life where a lot of people are no longer treating me as a normal person, and also I'm not a normal person.
I'm like part of the world of the like seriously ill, and I'm not part of the world of the people with kind of daily concerns. Like I'm not part of the work week, except to the extent that like, hospitals don't function in the same way on the weekends, and pathologists don't work on the weekends and, you know, you can't get certain medications prescribed on the weekends, and like those…that's the difference to me now, the insurance companies, you can't talk to people on the weekend.
But I've just entered this world that has all of these different concerns than I ever imagined having, you know, so suddenly, like handicapped accessibility is like a huge concern all of a sudden and how to use a cane and how to use a walker and where to get those things and, you know, pull bars and, you know, better, like, pill containers and water bottles and like washcloths and, and like, right now to, you know, like thinking of you alone with two 10 year olds, like it's taking me and Josh and a friend of mine, you know, I've had, this is the third friend of mine that I've had here, and Judah, to take care of Abram right now. And it's wild. It's wild.
[4:51]
And you know, he's so homebound, and in some ways our lives have gotten like so small, and you know, he uses a walker now. So twice a day usually he wants to go for a walk outside with the walker and I have this experience now where like the neighbors, you know, ask like, you know, if he has a leg injury or maybe they heard he was in the hospital and did he have Lyme's disease and like, is he okay? And I end up telling them that he has cancer and they react like, it's really… you remember I told you that when I got divorced, that married men seemed like visibly afraid of me, like visibly afraid to be around me? And it's like that, but so much worse, like there's, I've like entered into this parallel universe of so many people's greatest nightmare, right? Like I've got a kid with cancer and it's really serious and he's in a ton of pain, and I'm living with my ex-husband, and one of my sons, and we need almost full time care. And we haven't started treatment yet, and, you know, we almost ran out of pain medication, you know, and these, these are like, suddenly my new concerns, like, so suddenly, like a month ago, I was recording a podcast with you and we recorded one episode when Abram was was in the hospital very early on and I really wanted distraction. You know, I really wanted to be reminded, and I told you this, I wanted to be reminded of my life outside of the world of caretaking and of Abram's illness and what was wrong with him, as this was unfolding, and I asked you really explicitly, to try to help me maintain the creative part of my life.
So maybe I didn't want to talk about this because I wanted to like, talk about books, you know, or podcasting, or life outside of this, but in the past few weeks, there is no life outside of this anymore for me, and it's wild. Like, I'm just like moving through the world in a different in a different way. And it's similar in some ways to being the parent of a newborn or an infant, you know, not at all that Abram is an infant, but that like that level of responsibility, that level of, well, who's here if I'm not here, you know, and it's a really different identity. It's a different, you know, cause I've gotten to the place where my youngest kid was 17 and he was so independent and, you know, and then just to like feel that I've become like this tragic figure and that people treat me differently, but also if they treat me the same, sometimes that feels terrible too, because my life is not the same, like, you know, and I don't think people understand that, but also I don't know that I understand it, and I'm like right in the middle of it.
[9:55]
I'm just, and also I barely have time to even try to understand anything. And it's interesting, I knew it when, when I remembered that you were in Florida, I emailed David and I asked if he would record for an hour with me and I said that like the stuff that's happening now is so overwhelming and I wanted to talk about it and I wanted to like record it and he wrote back, and it was really interesting. I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was something like, you know, of course I want to talk to you anytime, but I feel a little hesitant to record something where someone's like right in the middle of something. I thought that was so interesting.
Like, I'm not offended at all that he said that I'm just curious. I'm interested in that. I'm interested in my desire to record it. You know, even as I say that, I'm realizing that, like, I'm recording this with you. I mean, in some ways, this is the conversation that I wanted to have, like, that I imagined recording with you. Like, I just need to talk about this right now. I know I told you that I wanted to talk about other things and I, I know you're open to me talking about this, and open to me talking about other things. You know, you've made it really clear that you are hoping to give me whatever I need. You know, you've been super nonjudgmental, and very supportive and yeah, I don't know. I need both things. I need to hear the message you left me about your life and about your time as a dad with your daughter and her friend in Disney World or wherever you went, I think you went to Disney World, you know, as if I'm a person that you can tell that story to who's not like a tragic, you know, figure who you would be careful around, you know, I don't want to be that person to you.
I don't want to be that person to anyone. I don't want to be that person. You know? I just want to be the normal tragic comic figure I was, heavy on the comic and less on the tragic. And now, Jesus. It's really intense around here. And so I want you to just be you, and I want to be part of the world, like outside of cancer and outside of hospitals and treatments and doctors and insurance companies and like medical equipment and, you know, pharmaceuticals and [sigh], you know, caretaking and worrying and being so afraid and, you know, watching the rest of my life just kind of disappear, and sort of letting it disappear in certain ways, sometimes really fighting that and sometimes really letting go, just like, just letting it go.
You know, I canceled the Reading with Rachel class, which is, I just, I really wanted to do that class. I wanted to like be in a group of people who were reading a book and like be in my professional self, you know, I mean, personal, but also a world in which like, I was still a person with a creative life and a job and a community outside of this. And then I just realized, like, I wasn't that person anymore. And that holding that class was gonna be really, really difficult and unsatisfying because I would be pretending to be somebody that I'm not anymore. And I know I'm gonna become someone else again. You know, I know this stage is not forever. And I don't know what treatment is gonna be like or what it's gonna be like when we go back to New York. But I won't be living with Josh anymore.
[15:00]
And I think some incredible things have happened that we've lived together, you know, post divorce these past few weeks, but I think I'm really ready to not live with him anymore. Um, this has been a really difficult and unnatural setup to be living with my ex-husband and a friend and a very sick child and a well child who's a teenager. This has been very complicated to say the least. And yeah, I also, I do need to talk about that to people outside of it. I do need to talk about it and for some reason I need to record it. And I can't write at all. I can't make notes at the end of the day. I'm not doing morning pages. I am talking on the phone every once in a while, especially when I walk the dog. I try to walk the dog for an hour each morning. But there's something about recording that's different than a phone conversation and I don't know what it is. And it's important to me and it's how I manage an unmanageable situation is somehow, there's some part of me that sees my own life as a narrative already. And writing is the way that I step away from my own life just a little bit in order to control it a little bit or look at it and find meaning in it, not just be in it and do it, because it's really hard right now.
Like, this is, this is by far, I've been through a lot of hard things. Like really a lot. And this is by far the hardest, and there is an enormous amount of meaning and learning and growing and connection and happiness and humor and surprise in this experience. I'm learning so much about myself and my kids and Josh and my friends and who my friends are and who my friends aren't and the way people respond to me, and responses that I find really helpful and supportive and responses that I find really unhelpful and really unsupportive, and my new ability to kind of know what I prefer, what works for me, and what doesn't work for me. And to ask for help, I have had to ask for help, um, over and over and over again for weeks, and, I have, and I'm grateful for the help that I've gotten. And I'm proud of myself for asking for the help and accepting the help without shame. You know, there are moments of discomfort, you know, when a friend has helped me, and I can see how tired the friend is. But I also know that that friend gets to go home and not be living this life. And that friend is thinking, Oh my God, thank God, that's not my life. And that's okay. And I don't get that right now.
So I feel incredibly grateful for the people who are showing up for me in person and like on the phone and friends are helping me set up a Caring Bridge site and, you know, check my health insurance and my, you know, job security. And, you know, so many different, so many different parts of this, so many different organizational parts and letting people know, and, you know, figuring out like, where we're going to stay, and you know, the different doctor stuff, and like, uh, it's just, it's, it's really wild. It's really wild. It's really intense. It's really like it's own organization that's springing up in order to manage this new situation.
[20:07]
And yeah, I don't know why recording that, and some of the moments that have happened is so important, except for like, how could it not be? And I continue to be a writer. I would have to be a different person entirely not to want to record this as I'm going through it in some way, and I think I'm done sort of being ashamed of being a writer and being a person who chooses to go through life, you know, partially in it, or as in it as possible, in the experience itself, in the moment itself, right? Like, this moment in my bedroom and me and the fan and the air and the particular light and my cough and my weird sore throat, this particular moment. But I'm also thinking, like I'm experiencing this moment, but I'm also thinking about our friendship and your message and my novel and our podcast and Commonplace and, you know, I can't believe that this is like, the next chapter, so to speak, of my life and, you know, what does that mean?
And yeah. All right. That's it for tonight. Long message. Hope to talk to you soon. Good night.
[Music]
MIKE SAKASEGAWA: You've been listening to Hey, It’s Me with Rachel Zucker and Mike Sakasegawa.
RACHEL ZUCKER: Hey, It's Me is a production of Rachel Zucker and Likewise Media
MIKE SAKASEGAWA: Editing on this episode is by Mike Sakasegawa. Music is byPodington Bear, and transcription help is by Leigh Sugar.
RACHEL ZUCKER: You can find more information about the show, including contact information and transcripts, at heyitsmepodcast.com.
MIKE SAKASEGAWA: If you'd like to hear more from us, you can find Rachel's other show, Commonplace, at Commonplace.today.
RACHEL ZUCKER: And you can find Mike's other show, Keep the Channel Open, at keepthechannelopen.com. Thanks for spending this time with us. Take care.